Super interesting—I’m visiting Japan right now for tourism (literally sitting in a Kyoto ryokan having breakfast as I type this) and the utter normality of this country is also the thing that stood out most to me. I’m not exactly surprised by it but I expected to feel more culture shock than, say, in Paris.
Yep. I guess another big difference now is that language and navigation aren't necessarily the barriers they once were. With automated translators, the whole place feels far more familiar than people expect.
I did! Briefly, but Dōtonbori was chaotic fun. And yes, good point about the language. Definitely the top thing to remind you you’re a foreigner, but not such a big deal. I’m still glad I learned the read the hiragana and katakana, though.
This doesn't make any sense to me. Individuals are clearly different from each other, both in appearance and behaviour. Why would that not apply to groups? Groups of people(like Japanese) could simply differ by having(on average) higher propensity to feel guilt or shame, ie prosocial tendencies. Insistence that it is otherwise seems like an article of faith more than a statement of fact.
I don't doubt that groups may have slight variation on average traits. But that would be a small effect compared to culture. Culture is hugely powerful.
Living in Japan it becomes obvious how thick the cultural influence is. Politeness, hierarchy, and respect are literally baked into their everyday language in very prominent ways.
In my experience, people just have different temperaments. It's quite bizarre to think that a culture arbitrarily is the way it is, as if random fluctuations made it so, instead of it being a reflection of the underlying temperaments of the average Joe (in the above case, the average Japanese). Sure, a person can put on a cloak and ape a certain culture in order to blend in. But I think if you had a group of ethnic Italians raised in Japanese culture, they will strain themselves to adapt and gesticulate less, be less loud etc. when there is pressure to do so, but if given freedom they would naturally deviate to their natural italic equilibrium.
It's an interesting argument. I think there are a lot of factors that could influence why cultures are the way they are, besides individual genetics. Climate, farming differences, political contexts, etc.
Ultimately it's not a question I feel adequate to answer.
I went to Japan for the first time, this Summer, and your article certainly helps me articulate some of the experiences I lived there. The social norms is what I found most fascinating: not so much the silence in the train, but the fact that people queue up in front of the subway stop, don't cut the line, and wait their turn.
I live in Paris, so you can imagine the shock - also, when I got back, French people seemed a pack of savages!
It's amusing that so many of us outsiders recognize Japanese norms as noticeably more "civilized" than what we have at home, even despite all usual ingroup biases.
We recently spent about a month traveling through Japan and like you said saw the boarded up houses in the countryside and coffee shops run by 86 year olds. Yes they are softening on immigration. Constantly saw men in white shirts/black pants returning from work at 9pm, was surprised that corporations haven’t relaxed their work expectations of 9-9! Isn’t this a contributing reason to their population decline?
Thanks, Alex; nice piece. Came away with a similar feeling after bouncing around the country for a few weeks last year. This place that feels all at once foreign and incredibly familiar. Still can’t quite put it into words (clearly), so thank you again for doing so.
“Trains in Japan are reliable and quiet because people expect them to be reliable and quiet, and railway workers back that up because they are incentivized to do so.”
I enjoyed this article, but come on! You can expect Americans in the inner city to be quiet as much as you want, they’re not going to behave like Japanese.
Thanks, Richard, good to hear from you! I agree it's not either-or, but it does depend depends on the relative number of various groups. Social norms aren't set in stone, yet they're pretty powerful once you experience them in practice.
There are plenty of Americans and other foreigners of all backgrounds on Tokyo's trains, and almost everyone is very quiet—much more so than they would be in any comparable setting back home (except the occasional loud tourist who doesn't know better).
I'll write more about crime and safety in Japan soon, but I do worry that, no matter how you slice it, immigrants from anywhere are likely to show higher crime rates than natives simply because Japanese baseline rates are so low (basically the opposite issue of what we have in the US).
Same! I think I learned it from some Canadian immigrant, complaining about the absence of sidewalks in Charlotte. I'm always amazed by how much we can learn from foreigners even in America lol
It has been said that Japan needs immigrants to work due to its declining birthrate and shrinking population. However, recently, I frequently see the argument that Japan could actually manage without immigrants.
The opinion is often that there is no labor shortage; rather, immigrants are simply being used to do the jobs that Japanese people do not want to do.
Furthermore, many companies that employ foreign workers report that these workers slack off when not being watched and do not work as diligently as Japanese employees.
Thank you. Do you have a sense of where these opinions are usually coming from? Are we talking about elected LDP officials, regular Japanese people on social media, or right-wing Westerners?
I should probably write more about this in a separate post, but it's absolutely true that Japan or other countries don't "need" immigration to get by. When you have the highest old-age dependency ratio in the world like in Japan, however, it's a much harder thing to argue that it is a good idea not to invite more workers, at least on the temporary basis.
The concerns about work ethic are also legitimate, but I don't see why this could be improved with better policies and standards.
Excellent post. I'm curious about your views on how the inability of nature to support our current standard of living with so many people runs into our inability to support our standard of living with less people, but that would be a separate post.
Thank you. I'm not an expert on environmental constraints, but I found this post (https://www.sustainabilitybynumbers.com/p/population-growth-decline-climate) by Hannah Ritchie convincing. Basically, the two issue you mention are rather separate, because population decline is very slow. But I agree that I should absolutely write more about it.
That's a fascinating link, and thank you. I suppose the big effect I envisioned wasn't climate change, but rather ecosystem destruction. That seems like it would be much more sensitive to the need for more or less greenfield construction, for which declining population would be a flipped switch. (Acknowledging a lot of local variability and potential for change in preferences in per person acreage.)
To tie it back- what trends in wilds and wildlife did you notice in Japan? Especially the remoter areas?
I see, that make sense. I probably haven't spent enough time in Japan's countryside to see any trends, but I doubt depopulation can just automatically restore or otherwise improve the ecosystem by itself. But this is certainly worth looking into more.
Super interesting—I’m visiting Japan right now for tourism (literally sitting in a Kyoto ryokan having breakfast as I type this) and the utter normality of this country is also the thing that stood out most to me. I’m not exactly surprised by it but I expected to feel more culture shock than, say, in Paris.
Yep. I guess another big difference now is that language and navigation aren't necessarily the barriers they once were. With automated translators, the whole place feels far more familiar than people expect.
P.S. I hope you visit(ed) Osaka, too!
I did! Briefly, but Dōtonbori was chaotic fun. And yes, good point about the language. Definitely the top thing to remind you you’re a foreigner, but not such a big deal. I’m still glad I learned the read the hiragana and katakana, though.
Agreed on most points, just came back as well. I go few times per year.
Did not explore important bedrock item: cultural (not racial) homogeneity.
It’s the engine behind Japan, much more than other things you mentioned.
Orderly and group-based (and slightly superstitious) behavior links all the pieces together.
For a simple example: if transport system was magically transplanted somewhere in US, it would fail right away because everyone would jump the gate.
West sucks this way, competition between state and individuals and among individuals is elevated to an unhealthy degree.
Japan is right on leaning towards more restrictive immigration and even tourism.
Low quality culture import can damage Japan more than demographics and economic problems.
Culture clearly isn't equal to race. An American child raised in Japan will be as culturally Japanese as any other citizen there.
A Japanese child raised in New York will be jumping the gate like all the others.
This doesn't make any sense to me. Individuals are clearly different from each other, both in appearance and behaviour. Why would that not apply to groups? Groups of people(like Japanese) could simply differ by having(on average) higher propensity to feel guilt or shame, ie prosocial tendencies. Insistence that it is otherwise seems like an article of faith more than a statement of fact.
I don't doubt that groups may have slight variation on average traits. But that would be a small effect compared to culture. Culture is hugely powerful.
Living in Japan it becomes obvious how thick the cultural influence is. Politeness, hierarchy, and respect are literally baked into their everyday language in very prominent ways.
In my experience, people just have different temperaments. It's quite bizarre to think that a culture arbitrarily is the way it is, as if random fluctuations made it so, instead of it being a reflection of the underlying temperaments of the average Joe (in the above case, the average Japanese). Sure, a person can put on a cloak and ape a certain culture in order to blend in. But I think if you had a group of ethnic Italians raised in Japanese culture, they will strain themselves to adapt and gesticulate less, be less loud etc. when there is pressure to do so, but if given freedom they would naturally deviate to their natural italic equilibrium.
It's an interesting argument. I think there are a lot of factors that could influence why cultures are the way they are, besides individual genetics. Climate, farming differences, political contexts, etc.
Ultimately it's not a question I feel adequate to answer.
I went to Japan for the first time, this Summer, and your article certainly helps me articulate some of the experiences I lived there. The social norms is what I found most fascinating: not so much the silence in the train, but the fact that people queue up in front of the subway stop, don't cut the line, and wait their turn.
I live in Paris, so you can imagine the shock - also, when I got back, French people seemed a pack of savages!
Thanks for the read
It's amusing that so many of us outsiders recognize Japanese norms as noticeably more "civilized" than what we have at home, even despite all usual ingroup biases.
We recently spent about a month traveling through Japan and like you said saw the boarded up houses in the countryside and coffee shops run by 86 year olds. Yes they are softening on immigration. Constantly saw men in white shirts/black pants returning from work at 9pm, was surprised that corporations haven’t relaxed their work expectations of 9-9! Isn’t this a contributing reason to their population decline?
Thanks, Alex; nice piece. Came away with a similar feeling after bouncing around the country for a few weeks last year. This place that feels all at once foreign and incredibly familiar. Still can’t quite put it into words (clearly), so thank you again for doing so.
My pleasure! I hope to write a follow-up soon.
“Trains in Japan are reliable and quiet because people expect them to be reliable and quiet, and railway workers back that up because they are incentivized to do so.”
I enjoyed this article, but come on! You can expect Americans in the inner city to be quiet as much as you want, they’re not going to behave like Japanese.
Thanks, Richard, good to hear from you! I agree it's not either-or, but it does depend depends on the relative number of various groups. Social norms aren't set in stone, yet they're pretty powerful once you experience them in practice.
There are plenty of Americans and other foreigners of all backgrounds on Tokyo's trains, and almost everyone is very quiet—much more so than they would be in any comparable setting back home (except the occasional loud tourist who doesn't know better).
I'll write more about crime and safety in Japan soon, but I do worry that, no matter how you slice it, immigrants from anywhere are likely to show higher crime rates than natives simply because Japanese baseline rates are so low (basically the opposite issue of what we have in the US).
It’s fascinating that I learned the word “stroad” from an immigrant.
Same! I think I learned it from some Canadian immigrant, complaining about the absence of sidewalks in Charlotte. I'm always amazed by how much we can learn from foreigners even in America lol
I read this article with great interest.
It has been said that Japan needs immigrants to work due to its declining birthrate and shrinking population. However, recently, I frequently see the argument that Japan could actually manage without immigrants.
The opinion is often that there is no labor shortage; rather, immigrants are simply being used to do the jobs that Japanese people do not want to do.
Furthermore, many companies that employ foreign workers report that these workers slack off when not being watched and do not work as diligently as Japanese employees.
Thank you. Do you have a sense of where these opinions are usually coming from? Are we talking about elected LDP officials, regular Japanese people on social media, or right-wing Westerners?
I should probably write more about this in a separate post, but it's absolutely true that Japan or other countries don't "need" immigration to get by. When you have the highest old-age dependency ratio in the world like in Japan, however, it's a much harder thing to argue that it is a good idea not to invite more workers, at least on the temporary basis.
The concerns about work ethic are also legitimate, but I don't see why this could be improved with better policies and standards.
Excellent post. I'm curious about your views on how the inability of nature to support our current standard of living with so many people runs into our inability to support our standard of living with less people, but that would be a separate post.
Thank you. I'm not an expert on environmental constraints, but I found this post (https://www.sustainabilitybynumbers.com/p/population-growth-decline-climate) by Hannah Ritchie convincing. Basically, the two issue you mention are rather separate, because population decline is very slow. But I agree that I should absolutely write more about it.
That's a fascinating link, and thank you. I suppose the big effect I envisioned wasn't climate change, but rather ecosystem destruction. That seems like it would be much more sensitive to the need for more or less greenfield construction, for which declining population would be a flipped switch. (Acknowledging a lot of local variability and potential for change in preferences in per person acreage.)
To tie it back- what trends in wilds and wildlife did you notice in Japan? Especially the remoter areas?
I see, that make sense. I probably haven't spent enough time in Japan's countryside to see any trends, but I doubt depopulation can just automatically restore or otherwise improve the ecosystem by itself. But this is certainly worth looking into more.